In the majority of structured interviews, it includes clearly emerged that reverse logistics is not the emphasis and the key purpose of dividends is client satisfaction, surplus come back and cleaning of expired medications.
None of the companies surveyed had to recover remedies for reason of product recall. Expired remedies removal is a legal necessity and functional and strategic policies ensure that medicines are removed before expiry from customers such as medical center, pharmacies and other source chain associates.
Operational level insurance policies are also geared to inspection at the initial point of come back where inspection of harm, confirmation of nearing expiry times etc is carried out. This gate keeping also ensures control of counterfeits if any. The issue of counterfeit medication however requires other controls as either this kind of medicines go into the market through non-channel associates. The dishonest merchants obviously would not try to returning the counterfeit to the pharmaceutical company in any case.
The went back products are then taken care of for removal. Some companies follow an insurance plan of recovering medications per month or two before expiry and contribute the remedies to charitable private hospitals for usage before expiry and so serve the city, others state to ruin the drugs.
The general model describing these areas of pharmaceutical reverse logistics is shown in the Display 3. 1.
Exhibit 3. 1: General model of opposite logistics
Using this model as a guide, our model for opposite logistics investigates the impact of proper, operational, supply chain orientation, practical integration and an external factor involved in the pharmaceutical change logistics and investigates the overall impact on change logistics. The model that may be employed to use for pharmaceutical change logistics can be displayed as shown below [Mollenkopf et al, 2007]
Exhibit 3. 2 : Model for effective change logistics management [Mollenkopf et al, 2007]
The dependent adjustable inside our model is thus efficiency of change logistics while the independent variables that impact RL performance are:
Reasons for Come back (Strategic & Operational Regulations)
Handling of Results (Supply Chain Orientation, Operations & IT applications)
Marketing Network (Functional Integration)
External Factors (Counterfeiting Concerns)
External Factors (Rules)
The model developed to study the opposite logistics investigates the have an impact on of independent parameters on efficiency of opposite logistics is presented in Exhibit 3. 3. This model has been the construction to build up the format of the survey used for the task. The structured interviews allowed an in-depth analysis of the major players in pharmaceutical industry.
Management of Returns
Product Integrity Concerns
Functional Integration
Effectiveness of Reverse Logistics
Exhibit 3. 3 Dependent and Independent Variables
The interview centered study and the likert level survey combined are expected to emphasize the pharmaceutical industry's concerns on reverse logistics. These concerns can help in recognition of future development opportunities. The international routines and global firm such as WHO concerns highlighted by literature review will be utilized to develop suggestion for improving opposite logistics techniques in Pakistan.
3. 7 Statistical Technique
The Likert size survey shown in Appendix-A3 was used to collect specific information to check our hypotheses. The data collected through email/email uncovered many inconsistencies and the analysis showed that the person filling the forms were either not enlightened or were not exercising due care. For example, most companies got mentioned not using RFIDs at present while the Likert survey showed more than 30% using RFIDs. A revisit was carried out to collect the data again.
Likert scale review gauges respondents view by asking how highly they agree or disagree with the question put to them. The questions are rated on a level (of say 1-5 e. g. highly concur = 1, agree = 2, undecided = 3, disagree = 4, and strongly disagree = 5. ) for statistical research using software such as Excel or SPSS.
We can commence research with descriptive statistics. Likert level data is analyzed by using setting or the most frequent response. The data may also be exhibited as a pub graph with one club for every single response category.
There are numerous strategies for inferential research such as using Mann Whitney or Kruskal Wallis test for evaluation of variance, the info can even be analyzed by simplifying the info into two nominal categories such as agree-disagree. This simplification offers other analysis alternatives such as using Chi square test or T-test.
We have chosen to perform the T-test as most suited to the fixed and independent variable for our data.
3. 7. 1 T-Test
T-Test pays to in testing if there is a big change between the means of two categories such as between those agreeing and those disagreeing with a possible results or hypothesis. The formulation for t-test is a proportion between two means of averages and the variability of the scores.
Exhibit 3. 4: Solution for the T-test
Where XT is the mean of test group and XC is the mean of control group. While varT and varC are the variations in the matching organizations and 'n' will be the volumes in the organizations.
The t-test assumptions include; freedom of the two samples and that the sizes of both samples are about equal. Both these assumptions are valid for our data.
3. 7. 2 T-Test using the SPSS
Using the info from Likert level survey given into SPSS, we use analyze, compare and 3rd party sample T-test. The variables are then decided on in to the test variable box. The grouping variable is the selected into "group adjustable pack" and define categories.
In order to perform the t-test, we choose, " specify values", go into the code for the variables and perform the test. This ends in SPSS T-test outcome. The T-test is then interpreted for equality of variances (Levene's F value), equality of means (Sig, 2-tailed) to check when there is significant difference between your method of two categories.
CHAPTER 4: RESULTS
This chapter presents the information gathered as part of the result investigation. The literature survey revealed the areas of concern in pharmaceutical change logistics. The medications have a shelf life and the concept of asset recovery or recycling need a much higher degree of ingenuity. The medications can't be ethically used after their expiry. Moreover, while a typical treatments has a shelf life of 2 yrs, the customers (pharmacies) are reluctant to keep the medicine that includes a couple of months kept in the expiry and cleaning of channel is needed for customer support reasons.
The literature review also identified regions of concern in ensuring the integrity of products in front logistics and the power of opposite logistics process to keep an eye on and control these areas of concern (such as monitoring opposite logistics to prevent counterfeiting, role of corporate vertical marketing management system in ensuring that unscrupulous retailers are eradicated). The larger pharmaceutical companies have set-up a thorough network of medical associates, sales people and something of own circulation or reliable third functions to assure an efficient distribution system.
The World Health Firm (WHO) has recognized counterfeiting as a significant area of matter for Pakistan reporting as much as 50% of the treatments being produced in the country as counterfeit. This amount is highly debatable and requires analysis.
The advent of new technology such as Radio Regularity Identification (RFID) system offers highly coordinated and handled systems of inventory management in every areas of syndication and retailing and is being advocated for pharmaceutical circulation and come back management. Application of it in pharmaceutical distribution and come back management can be an area that will require investigation.
Analysis of the info from published resources helped in identifying the areas of matter for Pakistan's pharmaceutical sector and helped in developing information requirement for main data collection.
4. 1 Assortment of Primary Data
In order to comprehend the working of the pharmaceutical industry and the regions of matter, it was made a decision to collect extensive information by means of a survey/structured interviews. Appendix A-2 presents the questionnaire developed for this purpose. This questionnaire was comprehensive and taxed the patience of both researcher and respondents. The info gathered however justified your time and effort.
A second data collection form focused on the areas of concern of reverse logistics. This form Appendix A-3 is dependant on the Likert Level ranking to various areas of reverse logistics. The Likert size based review has been statistically examined to assess the importance of important factors affecting slow logistics.
4. 2 Evaluation of Composition Survey
The research of research data reveals many interesting studies (Appendix A-4). The study included small to large pharmaceutical companies. Practically 70 %70 % of the firms surveyed were under Pakistani possession, 7% of the companies were dealing with foreign collaboration while 22% declared themselves as multinational (Show-4. 1). This data gives us a good overall picture of the industry as this break-up is at close approximation to the industry breakup.
46% of the companies surveyed experienced a turn over of between Rs 50-99 million per annum, 50% of the surveyed acquired a turnover of more than Rs 100 a huge number and the rest of the got a turnover of less than Rs 50 thousands and thousands (Display 4. 2).
The most companies surveyed utilized over 400 staff members (Exhibit -4. 3) indicating the pharmaceutical sector to be always a major source of employment in the country.
Most pharmaceutical companies get excited about formulation and product packaging. Although some companies indicated basic formulation, this often will involve the finishing phases such as purification. This sort of basic creation is often the result of administration incentives offered to basic manufacturers. Basic developing, which uses basic natural material, is generally not being carried out. The traditional medication based pharmaceutical companies are involved in basic manufacturing. Inside our review 75% of the companies reported to be involved in formulation and packaging (Exhibit-4. 4).
Many of the smaller pharmaceutical companies are importing and distributing medications in ready to sell form. The multinational and large local companies also importing some of their products in prepared to sell form (Exhibit 4. 5-4. 6).
In volume terms, the companies importing substances are producing almost all the medicines sold in Pakistan to meet 80% of the local demand while imported medicines take into account 20% of the countrywide consumption [Pervez, 2008].
The survey exhibited that 60% of the pharmaceutical companies are exporting treatments to local countries in prepared to sell form (Exhibit - 4. 7)
4. 3 Change Logistics in Pakistan's Pharmaceutical Industry
Pharmaceutical sector has been at the forefront of implementing supply chain tactics. Our survey found that almost all companies claimed to get supply chain departments often supervised as a individually entity. Many companies surveyed mentioned that the essential drivers of resource string were being controlled as part of supply chain management. Almost 70% of the firms surveyed indicated pursuing their logistics procedures as part of supply string (Exhibit- 4. 8). An frustrating 80% of the respondent mentioned getting a dedicated supply string department (Display - 4. 9).
The survey proved that the firms thoroughly use services of external providers in their supply chains. 42% of the respondents indicated significant involvement of third part services while 30% suggested using third party services in some of these activities (Show- 4. 10).
A break down of third party engagement by services (Show - 4. 11) revealed that alternative party services are used in reverse logistics by 6% of the responding organizations.
Reverse logistics in a basic pharmaceuticals developing industry can be divided into three areas:
The first part pertains to change logistics management of supplies
The change logistics of basic raw materials and by-products for recovery of assets and
handling earnings from the customers and consumers
In Pakistan, the pharmaceutical industry is not involved with any significant basic creation operations. Needlessly to say, the next step in the above list is insignificant if so. The handling being of rudimentary dynamics consists of recovering or disposing of solvents used in processing.
4. 3. 1 Opposite Logistics of resources.
The equipment to the pharmaceutical industry consist of presentation materials, local recycleables, and imported raw materials. These products are subject to routine quality investigations. Any material not get together the standards is came back to the company (Display- 4. 12)
The pharmaceutical companies especially the multinational and large local companies have over enough time built strong human relationships with suppliers and almost 25% of the firms indicated that their suppliers were ensuring quality at their end and providing packaging materials with zero-defects (Exhibit- 4. 13).
Close loop reverse logistics is also applied in pharmaceutical business. These include mass material pots, inert gas cylinders, non toxic materials drums and similar materials. (Show-4. 14) implies that 20% of the respondents have some form of close loop results.
4. 3. 2 Opposite logistics of material generated in control.
As mentioned above the key form of production is formulation and packaging. A few companies have presented handling of semi-finished drugs into done products locally. This incomplete processing enables the companies to claim benefits allowed to basic manufacturers by the government. The materials made during these businesses range from no byproducts to wastes needing disposal (Display-4. 15 to Show-4. 17).
4. 3. 3 Opposite logistics of pharmaceuticals.
A very large proportion of pharmaceutical companies are unable to examine their cost of opposite logistics. Most companies reported that dividends are handled as a part of regulatory and customer support factors.
In a number of conditions, the medicines need to be withdrawn prior to the legal expiry time paper on the drugs packing, as individuals are reluctant to buy medicines, which just have a few months kept to expire. These medicines are accepted back again as a part of customer service as cleaning the stations. What goes on to these near expiry medicines seems to be unclear. One or two companies indicated these medicines are donated to charitable private hospitals where they can be used before the actual expiry time frame. The informal debate showed these medicines may be sold (redistributed) to organizations, which may use these before their expiry. In any case, all expired medicines are accumulated and returned to the business to avoid regulatory issues. Over 80% of the respondents predicted that returned drugs take into account 1-5% of medicines sent to the marketplace (Exhibit- 4. 18). For some companies the expense of organizing reverse logistics was significantly less than 1% while about 20% companies predicted it to be between 5-10% (Show-4. 19).
Most companies have conservative policies for entertaining profits, only 9% of respondents mentioned following very liberal return policies (Exhibit- 4. 20).
The removal of expired medications was reported to vary from burial to incineration. In smaller less well managed companies managing of the expired medications was thought to lack rigid control. Informal discussions showed that many of these expired drugs could filter back in the marketplace through unscrupulous suppliers.
The majority of respondent companies have their own distribution network and the change logistics uses this network. Almost 65% of the firms surveyed used their own circulation network for change logistics while the remaining hired a mixture of own/third get together logistics (Display- 4. 21). Almost 25% of the respondent indicated disposal by third party companies. Lots of the companies do not have their own incinerators and third party services are being used for this function by these businesses.
Another important finding of the research is the extent of counterfeit drugs. Most companies suggested how big is the situation to be insignificant. The counterfeiting is placed in close check as companies are using their own circulation network or reliable alternative party companies in their own business interest. It appears that the shape quoted by Who's grossly exaggerated and results from this is of counterfeiting. The drugs sold as herbal and homeopathic drugs often list active ingredients however, not the active ingredient content and is thus categorised as counterfeit. The industry-wide estimations of counterfeit treatments were quoted as between 1-3 % [PPMA, 2005]. Companies adopt different tactics to regulate movement of medicines throughout the string, such as discovering distribution by areas. This is often done to regulate over enthusiastic sales professionals encroaching after other managers' place. This practice also helps in identifying any unauthorized or counterfeit medication. The companies keep an in depth watch for counterfeiting and counterfeit check is one of the major concerns in reverse logistics too (Exhibit-4. 22)
The expensive medicines are often supplied through highly reputable pharmacies or by company's own sales staff e. g. Eli Lilly's osteoporosis treatments Forteo priced at Rs. 22, 000/= for one injection and necessitating low temperature storage space, the company delivers the medications in clinics or patients homes through their sales representatives stored in ice-packs. Several large pharmacies such as Kausar Medicos will be the appointed pharmacies for this kind of expensive medicines. This kind of close control protects product effectiveness and also eliminates counterfeiting. Expensive (typically imported) medicines are just made available through well-recognized large medical stores and pharmacies and often directly delivered to medical center pharmacies.
4. 3. 4 Role of it in pharmaceutical industry.
Information technology has started to make its tag in the handling of pharmaceuticals. However the technology is not keeping speed with the global development. Within the survey carried out to study possible application of Radio Rate of recurrence Identification systems (RFID), lots of respondents demonstrated total ignorance of RFIDs. Most pharmaceutical companies are employing computerized admittance and monitoring for pharmaceutical marketing and opposite logistics (Display - 4. 23).
Bar codes are the other request of information technology. Only 3% of the respondent cited using electronic digital data interchange (EDI) for reverse logistics. Nobody is using RFIDs perhaps scheduled to absence of the mandatory hardware for using RFID technology.
4. 4 Evaluation of Likert Level Survey
This study (Appendix A-3) was emailed to pharmaceutical companies as a follow-up of structured review (Appendix A-2). The replies received after several obtain expediting the go back turned out alternatively disappointing. It had been clear from the research that the study was not finished with the required treatment and attention. For instance, respondents who experienced earlier exhibited total ignorance of RFID possessed now indicated that they were using RFIDs as a means to manage supply chain distribution. This anomaly resulted in miss leading research of hypotheses.
This problem necessitated a revisit for data collection. It became clear that respondent exhaustion was a factor in old replies. The senior staff that possessed kindly devoted time and effort to the prior survey offered the follow-up study to lower staff and requests for expediting the review was to blame for the replies. The senior managers kindly decided to go through the forms once more and the data analysis with smaller test was completed again to check the hypotheses.
With that it was discovered that 4 of the hypotheses were accepted when the T-test was run with the significant value of 0. 25 for H1, 3. 13 for H2, 0. 00 for H3, 0. 00, 0. 00 and. 204 for H4 and 0. 85 for H5.
The questions were graded on a size of 1-5. Highly disagree = 1, disagree = 2, undecided = 3, concur = 4, and strongly agree with the fact = 5 for statistical examination using software SPSS.
To test the hypotheses 4 was used as a test value on T-test. A value which is 4, near 4 or greater than 4 is either completely agreeing or near to an contract with a statement in likert range questionnaire. The results of T-test are offered in Appendix A-5. The first hypotheses that opposite logistics is completed for cleaning route or removal of expired products was approved (Display-4. 24). The mean value is 3. 8 which is very close to the test value of 4. The difference is insignificant, only 0. 252. This insignificance means that change logistics in Pakistan's pharmaceutical industrial is principally used for cleaning out route with newer inventory, to replace old stock, to expose new presentation or products and remove expired products from clinics or pharmacies.
Second hypotheses that circulation system firm and control is an essential aspect in managing opposite logistics was also approved (Display-4. 25). This shows that all the companies contained in the survey have a solid supply string network that allows them to completely ensure a complete restoration as well as they have a solid check over false products by marketing though limited distributions stations and retailers. The approval of H2 also signifies that pharmaceutical companies realize the value of mentoring and controlling distribution of remedies for both ahead and change logistic.
Third hypothesis that counterfeit medications are a significant concern for the pharmaceutical industry was disapproved when T-test was run for this (Display-4. 26). The significance value of mean difference is 0. 00 and the mean response value is 3. 19. These results show that concern for the counterfeiting are blended. Some companies are conscious that counterfeiting is a genuine probability and must be carefully checked while others do not find it to be a significant problem. Survey included companies producing common remedies as well as proprietary medicine. It seems logical that the general developer will be less concerned with counterfeiting of the product anticipated to low margin. The top quality products have higher margins and tend to be more susceptible to counterfeiting of the products.
Fourth hypothesis the info technology improvements such as RFID, keep tabs on and trace is effective in reverse logistics was also approved (Exhibit-4. 27). Although pharmaceutical companies presently don't have 2-D, 3-D or RFID technology employed but their own keep tabs on and trace system for their products is strong enough for tracing necessary information. With no question, the information technology has made appreciable inroads into management of forward and reverse logistics and record keeping generally in most companies is computerized. Another level of procedures, such as 3-D club coding and RFIDs, are still not being used. This technology continues to be in first stages in the producing countries of the world. Concerns for cost, technology and privateness issues have been major barriers to RFIDs in the developed world. There is absolutely no doubt that with increased option of RFIDs centered system and reduction in prices, RFIDs will be introduced by multinational companies in Pakistan and finally by large local companies.
The previous hypotheses that opposite logistics is maintained efficiently to ensure that pharmaceutical change logistics is watched, controlled and not ignored equally as a market charge was also approved with an insignificant value of 0. 856 and mean being 3. 97 (Display-4. 28). The popularity of the hypothesis evidently shows the pharmaceutical sector is lively and alive to carefully control and control profits. They do not cater return costs importantly rather than disregarded or justified with marketing bills.
Cronbach Alpha yield. 946 or 94% as a reliability statistic of the data (Exhibit-4. 29).
The Likert based survey was also examined for mode to look for the most typical response for each survey question. The function being appropriate for Likert range was used to find the most dominant reactions. These responses (Appendix A-6) are good indications that our hypothesis stands statically approved.
CHAPTER 5: Conversations, IMPLICATIONS, FUTURE RESEARCH AND CONCLUSIONS
5. 1 Discussions
This review has had the opportunity to fill up a gap inside our information on the Pakistani pharmaceutical industry. Reverse logistics continues to be a essentially unexplored area in source chain management. Information about return management, controlling returns to enhance the efficiency of the change logistics process, extracting value where possible and safeguarding environment from mindless removal of expired, damaged and end of life products has purchased great importance in the environmentally mindful and highly competitive business environment of today.
The pharmaceutical industry is a very sensitive sector where mishandling of expensive remedies not only compromises the success of the sector but also performs with the fitness of those who purchase these expensive drugs looking to be treated with their health problems. Counterfeit or expired drugs, incorrect cleaning of channel of expired drugs has implications way beyond the profitability of the sector. It really is a subject of life and death for the consumers.
The regulatory body have devised all the restrictions essential to protect the industry and the consumers. Poor execution of these polices, the temptation of making high revenue by producing substandard and/or counterfeit medications and occurrence of unethical elements in circulation networks has position the onus on the pharmaceutical industry to safeguard the integrity with their products, and manage the in front and change chains for efficiency, efficiency and integrity of these products.
The pharmaceutical sector in Pakistan involves multinational and large local companies similarly and an array of small local companies on the other. The larger companies accounting for 80% of market contain the resources to tightly control their circulation network and are better prepared to manage both onward and reverse operations. The risk of counterfeiting which influences the gains and image of the companies is also well recognized by these businesses and reliable partners & most often own circulation network is employed to safeguard the integrity of their products.
The focus of slow logistics in almost all of these businesses is on customer satisfaction and regulatory compliance. The merchandise, which are very near the expiry loose consumer interest and have to be washed off the cabinets. The expired drugs cannot be continued the shelf and both the retailer and companies are obliged to eliminate and return the products to the maker for removal.
The cost associated with change logistics cost is known as a marketing and distribution charge and by many says is considered to be always a very small proportion of total costs (1-5%). Controlling opposite logistics is therefore of little importance and the medicines retrieved from the market are allowed to build up at local collection things for weeks and weeks until they can be removed. The medicines are often removed one or two a few months before expiry due to consumers' reluctance to get these nearing expiry medications. Most of the major producers like to project an image of corporate social responsibility and donation of the nearing expiry medications to charitable nursing homes can create a good image for the company. A couple of multinationals state to have this practice.
The degree of information technology use backwards logistics is limited to computerized traffic monitoring and saving of retrieved products. The growing systems such as RFID will add a whole new sizing to managing syndication and come back of pharmaceuticals. The implementation of RFID continues to be in first stages in countries where the hardware necessary to put into action the technology is already in place. Implementation in developed world will probably expose this technology in Pakistan as well through the multinational companies functioning in Pakistan. Currently, there are no sings of RFID in Pakistan's pharmaceutical industry.
5. 3 Implications and Recommendations
The implications of the research for Pakistan's pharmaceutical industry are numerous. It is clear that change logistics has been recognized as essential for regulatory and customer service targets. Cleaning the route of practically expired drugs is essential for consumer satisfaction. Opposite logistics hasn't received the attention it deserves and little or no attempt is being made to deal with RL for handling costs and efficiency.
Delayed replies, long return handling times, poor control of returned medications create potential problems for the pharmaceutical company. Poor control of returned medicine exposes pilferage and infiltration of the expired treatments in to the market with counterfeit presentation. Cleaning of the channel for customer support reasons results in return of medicines, which have some time still left to expire. This medicine could help boost company image if they are distributed to charitable clinics to provide free treatments for the poor as long as they are consumed before expiration.
The pharmaceutical sector in Pakistan contains 285 to 300 companies however the real business is bound to the top 50 companies who control 80% of the market share. In fact, the very best 100 companies control 90% of the market share. This leaves the rest of the 200 roughly companies with a show of 10% of the full total market. Hardly any of these companies hold the logistics support to ensure an efficient network of product delivery and invert logistics. We delivered more than 250 study varieties to known addresses of most companies. The level of response from small companies signifies that some of these companies are either exporting common drugs or have little if any business in Pakistan. Lack of marketing infrastructure in smaller companies can be problematic in ensuring successful change logistics and can even create additional risk of counterfeiting of these products.
5. 4 Future Research
Reverse logistics is a comparatively new area for the industry. The pharmaceutical sector in Pakistan is highly planned and majority of the business is well managed. The major manufacturers have managed to control management of dividends effectively. The other monetary sectors have paid little focus on the management of reverse logistics for increased profitability and customer service improvements. In lots of sectors change logistics pledges to be profitable as refurbishment, residual value recovery, income from prolonged warranty can boost the profitability of these sectors. More importantly, a better return policy can help local producers develop a brand image which are reserved for large multinational companies. It really is proposed that reverse logistics in other monetary sector be researched to develop recommendations to improve opposite logistics to boost the profitability of the sectors. Waste of one person is another's treasure therefore, researches should be conducted not only on the complementary companies of pharmaceuticals but also on other industries such a textile, rubber and a glass to measure the potential of opposite logistics in Pakistan.
5. 5 Conclusion
This job has provided valuable information into the change logistics routines in Pakistan's pharmaceutical sector. It really is clear that opposite logistics in Pakistan's pharmaceutical industry is normally of the same order as regarded typical far away.
Better management and control of delivered products is essential to safeguard company image as poor control of returned medicine can cause infiltration of expired medicine in new product packaging in to the market impacting on the reputation and profitability of otherwise ethical manufacturers. Through this research, it is disclosed that there surely is insufficient conformity, control and effectiveness in the complete process of reverse logistics.
Proper management of drugs retrieved nearing expiry supplies the opportunity to task the business as a accountable social citizen by distributing these medicines through charitable hospitals to poor who cannot afford these medications anyhow and reduce the expense of disposal after their expiry.
Counterfeiting is a problem and the pharmaceutical companies have a reasonably reliable network in location to counter this menace. The magnitude of counterfeiting as said by WHO is however, exaggerated and typical physique by consensus of the industry is well below 5%.
The increasing option of information technology is bound to bring developments such as 2D bar codes and RFID technology to the pharmaceutical sector. This will help in better management of pharmaceutical medicine and also assist in managing comes back.
